Dimitri Rogozine (Rus): “Europe of defense must be built with Russia”

(BRUSSELS2) Dimitri Rogozine is Russia's ambassador to NATO. A diplomat but a politician above all, the man has strong opinions. Having belonged to the Rodina formation (fatherland), until 2006, he had just created a new party “Great Russia” before being appointed to NATO.

Today, there is no shortage of subjects of friction between Russia and Europe: anti-missile defense (Rogozin proposes abandoning the American project and "building a common Russian-European system"), the enlargement of NATO to Georgia (an attempt at "destabilize"), Kosovo ("discussion in the Security Council and maintenance of Unmik beyond June"), Chad ("no participation in the Eufor mission but planes for UNAMID").

Friction seems to be increasing between Russia and Europe, have you found a new enemy?

I would rather say that it's like the new couples. Everyone had their separate life before. If they want to live together, it takes time to get used to.

...a sign that Europe is a power that counts?

Europe is only beginning to think about its own European defense policy. But it will only be able to progress, to have a serious defense policy with Russia. However, currently, it has chosen to participate in NATO, where the United States is dominant. And American military policy is in opposition to European military policy.

Do you believe that the European Defense Policy (ESDP) must be emancipated?

Sure. The threats to the EU are the same as to Russia. We are located on the same continent. Our common interest is to defend this continent. The interest of the United States is elsewhere, they are far away, like an island. European defense policy must therefore be built first with Russia.

On what issues do you think it would be useful to work with the Europeans?

On some issues, we can work together. 1° human rights standards with the Council of Europe; 2° common energy security. We are the sole guarantee of the European Union's energy security. 3° common transport infrastructures; 4° the external security rules of our borders, especially the fight against illegal immigration. These are the four pillars of our cooperation.

In fact, to use your image, do you hope that Lady Europe, a little fickle, in the evening with the "boys", will come home?

It's a good idea...

Let's move on to the anti-missile shield project in the Czech Republic and Poland, why be against it?

All the ballistic specialists laugh when they see what the Americans are offering. If really it is Iran, the threat, it is not in the Czech Republic or in Poland that it is necessary to install this system. But rather in Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey… We have doubts that these radars are not directed towards Iran but towards Russia.

What do you suggest then?

Why not work together and neutralize these missiles from the start? We are close to countries that can threaten Europe. We can have part of the system in southern Russia and Azerbaijan...

... and a second row on European territory?

Yes. It must be a united system, jointly managed, between NATO, Europe and Russia. I will call it the anti-missile system of the European military theater. Our system is not worse and even better than that of the United States. And we can create perfect technologies with the Europeans.

If this solution is not chosen, will you react?

Absoutely. If these radars and missiles are installed, we will in turn have to install a device against these anti-missile systems. We would have no problem shooting the Czech Republic and Poland, first shooting and attacking. This whole American system is a provocation. It's a stupid project.

Do you see the enlargement of NATO to Georgia and Ukraine as a threat as well?

Absolutely. We are in Abkhazia and the Americans will be in the rest of Georgia. What do we want? To have Russian soldiers right up against American soldiers. It's really a dumb idea. What the Americans want above all is to destabilize Ukraine politically - public opinion is against this membership - and also to destabilize relations between Ukraine and Russia. It's "divide and conquer"!

Continuation of the interview: Dimitri Rogozin (Rus): Europe is playing a dangerous game in Kosovo

(Face-to-face interview published in part in Europolitique)